Wopke Hoekstra, EU Climate Commissioner:«The Green Deal will go ahead anyway, Italy is a reliable partner» – The interview

The words of the European Commissioner, successor of Frans Timmermans, to Open:«Common debt to finance the green agenda?I believe that the next Commission will focus on other priorities"

Wopke Hoekstra's experience at the European Commission is different, at least in part, from that of all his colleagues.The Dutch EPP politician was catapulted to Brussels with the legislature well underway.In fact, it's almost over.The arrival in the college of commissioners chaired by Ursula von der Leyen it only officially happened in October 2023, just seven months before the European elections.Yet, the portfolio that Hoekstra found himself managing is anything but negligible:«Climate action», not a small thing for a block of countries that is bidding to become the first economy in the world to achieve climate neutrality.When he arrived in Brussels, Hoekstra, who was Dutch Finance Minister for four years, found himself collecting a rather cumbersome legacy:that of Frans Timmermans, his compatriot but with a socialist orientation, the architect of that Green Deal which became a distinctive feature of the last European Commission.

Hoekstra opted for a softer approach than his predecessor, who before resign from the EU executive to run for office in the Netherlands had become the favorite target of every exponent of the European right.The style adopted by Hoekstra is certainly different, both due to political affiliation and past experience (before becoming minister he worked for Shell and McKinsey).Furthermore, his place seems to have already been booked by Teresa Ribera, Spanish Minister for Ecological Transition and probable next European Climate Commissioner.We meet Wopke Hoekstra at the headquarters of the European Commission's representation in Italy, in Rome.A city that the current European Climate Commissioner (in office until around September) knows very well, if only because he lived there during his university years.«I am in love with Rome and Italy is a fantastic country.I have a very special bond and it is always nice for me to come back here", says Wopke Hoekstra in this interview with Open, released on Friday 28 June, just before heading to the training session organized by former US vice president Al Gore.

Let's rewind the tape of his experience as European Climate Commissioner.What is the thing you are most proud of?And is there a dossier on which you hoped to do something more?

«Pride is not the word I would use, but what I am most satisfied with, and what I think is a huge achievement for Europe and the world, is the success of the Cop28.In Dubai we witnessed a great victory for diplomacy.We had an extraordinary group of European ministers who did a fantastic job.And then we managed to keep alive a super majority of 140-150 countries in favor of more incisive climate action.As with any international agreement, we will have to wait a few years to understand if it worked.But it was a fantastic and unexpected result."

And what is the regret?

«I have many, but the thing that makes me sleep well at night is knowing that we are doing the right things in terms of climate policies.The real problem is that the window of opportunity to act is closing and we have little time left.If we had started acting twenty or thirty years earlier, we would be in a different situation today.Instead, we find ourselves having to act quickly and we absolutely cannot stall."

There is a widespread feeling that the latest elections could convince the European Union to lower the bar of ambition in climate policies.Will it be like this?

«I am more optimistic.You can ignore the point of view of a political party, but ultimately you cannot question the gravity of the situation we find ourselves in.The fact is that you cannot negotiate with the planet.There is a scientific reality and that is that the world is warming, in Europe even faster than elsewhere.The damage to the planet, but also to the economy and even to security, is already very significant and potentially enormous.So there is no workaround:we must address climate change regardless of where we stand on the political spectrum.It is extremely important not only to continue with climate action, but also to be able to combine it with the competitiveness of our companies and with a just transition for our citizens."

Giorgia Meloni she abstained on Ursula von der Leyen's encore to the European Commission, but it could still provide some votes to help her get elected.Could a greater involvement of ECR ​​conservatives influence the European climate agenda?

«President von der Leyen has done a truly extraordinary job with the energy crisis, Covid-19, the climate and the horrible war the Russians are waging in Ukraine.So I'm happy that the government leaders took that decision.That said, it's not up to me.The only thing I can say, and I know it has attracted a lot of attention in Italy, is that I fully agree with it who says that in Europe things are done together.It is of exceptional importance that the opinion of all 27 countries is taken into account at all times.And I think it is fully understandable and right that your country's politicians have asked for it too.Now it's up to Parliament to build a solid and broad majority to do the right things for the future of Europe."

So you're not afraid that there could be political upheavals?

«I believe that the Italian government has done a very solid job in terms of support for the EU, support for NATO, help for our Ukrainian friends and management of immigration.So I can only praise the Italian government for the excellent work it has done.And my dear friend Antonio Tajani, who I have always worked with exceptionally, was a key architect of this.The same goes for the minister Picket Fratin and the other members of the government."

What will happen to the Green Deal?What should be the priorities of "phase 2" of the European green agenda?

«We must continue with climate policies, but combine them with competitiveness and the just transition.These elements have to go hand in hand, but there are many things we need to work on.First of all, continue to run with renewables.Italy, among other things, has the largest production plant of panels from all over Europe (3Sun in Sicily – ed.).Secondly, I think we actually need much more significant investments, for example in the field of CCS (Carbon Capture and Storage, CO2 capture and storage systems – ed.) and batteries.And then we need to invest much more in our networks.We are electrifying our economy very rapidly, even beyond our wildest expectations, and the infrastructure must be able to withstand the impact."

Do you think mistakes were made with the Green Deal?

«Perfection does not exist.The priority for the future, as I was saying, is to combine climate action with competitiveness and a just transition.That said, we sometimes overlook in Europe that we should be much more proactive to get other countries to commit to reducing emissions too.Climate change affects all of humanity indiscriminately, no matter whether the CO2 is released in Argentina, Sweden or China.It's bad for everyone.Europe produces 7% of emissions, we must work harder to reduce that remaining 93% too."

And how could it be done?

«For example, helping them to set a price for CO2 emissions, as the European Union has already done, and to quickly switch to renewable energy.Let me quote a statistic that has always struck me.I come from a small town (the Netherlands – ed.) where it rains most of the time.Well, in that small country there are more solar panels than in all of Africa combined.We can see it as a problem, and indeed it is.But we can also consider it a huge opportunity."

In 2020, when he was still Finance Minister, he objected to the creation of an instrument to help the most indebted countries such as Italy through a common debt program.Would you be in favor of a similar program today to finance the ecological transition?

«First of all, let me say that I am very supportive of the type of instrument that ultimately emerged, because we have established a very strong link between investments and reforms.And I think it's a good recipe because politicians don't spend their own money, but that of citizens and companies who pay taxes.Regarding the possibility of a new common debt program for the ecological transition, I would say that the center of gravity is moving elsewhere.My feeling is that the next Commission will invest more in geopolitics and innovation."

Let's move on to the international scene for a moment.The fight against climate change is one of the few issues on which very different countries still manage to sit at the same table.Measurements like i duties against electric cars imported from China don't they risk exposing the EU to possible retaliation from Beijing?

«Humanity has no alternatives:we must all work together to solve this problem.Europe is doing more than its share of climate action, but we shouldn't be alone.I believe that China, the Gulf countries and a good number of other countries with greater influence should take more responsibility.As for duties on Chinese vehicles, there is a need to play on equal terms.If I continue to accept that Europe is flooded with products subsidized by state aid and unfair competition, then I would truly jeopardize the support of our companies and citizens for climate policies.In summary, we must be very clear:We come in peace, but we are willing to intervene where necessary to defend the level playing field, the integrity of the single market and the set of rules we have given ourselves.Only in this way will we continue to be protagonists of international trade."

The other great unknown on the international level concerns the next presidential elections in the United States.What impact would a victory have? Donald Trump on climate policies?

“We have no alternative but to work with any democratically elected leader of the United States.Regardless of our individual preferences, in the fields of geopolitics, security and climate action, we will continue to work together with our American friends."

COP28 in Dubai, where you were chief negotiator for the EU, achieved a historic result.Yet, the feeling is that there is a good portion of countries that have no intention of truly honoring the commitments made.How do you get out of it?

«It's true, it's a real problem.The first step of an agreement is to agree on something, the second step is to execute it.We must continue to work to ensure that what was decided in the United Arab Emirates is achieved.We should all be custodians of that agreement and we Europeans will certainly continue to be so.After that, there is good reason to be optimistic.If countries really thought that these agreements mean little and can simply back out at any moment, then perhaps they would not fight so fiercely to defend their position and it would be much easier to reach an agreement.However, reality tells us the opposite.While there is no legal obligation to follow, these agreements take on a dynamic of their own once approved.Or at least, this is what we have learned from the past."

Last week you were in Baku, Azerbaijan, site of the next UN climate conference.What should we expect from Cop29?

«Like last year, the context is not easy but we have the imperative to achieve a good result.My priorities are three.First:the new collective quantified goals (Ncqg), i.e. pushing for sustainable finance.Second:make progress on the points of the agreement reached at the Dubai conference.Third:put a price on carbon dioxide emissions, because it is one of the most useful things we can do.I know it's a technical question and that many people struggle to understand it, but it is also one of the most effective policies we have available.I would like to see more countries put it into practice, because it incentivizes companies to do what is right, which is to emit less."

On the cover:European Commissioner for Climate Action, Wopke Hoekstra (EPA/Ronald Wittek)